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Observer

Speed drops since package upgrade

Last week we "Upgraded" from internet only to a TV/Phone/nternet bundle. Prior to this I had no issues with speed. Since then I have constant speed drops. I can reboot the modem and the speed will come back full on but after a while it drops dramatically.

We have the ultimate internet upgrade and I here are two results from speed tests I've run.

 

Here's a screenshot from my modem page.

 

11 REPLIES 11
Expert

Re: Speed drops since package upgrade

You have SEVERE INGRESS from 4G LTE sites nearby. If you can't find anything loose call TWC out.

 This cannot be fixed over the phone

 

Observer

Re: Speed drops since package upgrade

Thank you again MsRaye, I've contacted Time Warner and they are sending someone out this weekend.

Expert

Re: Speed drops since package upgrade

printout the page that shows 753 and 747 mHz blank  for the tech.

Don't reset the modem,  Repost your level page again, let's see if they're back or other channels are worst than the first post

 

Spectrum Employee

Re: Speed drops since package upgrade

First, I hope these measurements you've shared are coming off of wired (ethernet) and not wireless (WiFi).  There are a lot of amature radio WiFi broadcasts near you I'd bet, a lot of sources of adjacent interference (most likely in the 2.4 GHz band).

 

This is from me, please tell the tech this (it'll help them and you both):

  • 26 MER on 753 MHz
  • 30.4 MER on 747 MHz
  • Fluctuating-intermittent MER, it goes above & below that, but that's the daily average.
  • If finding a maintenance issue of any kind, please refer to your maintenance tech team for the  KH hub .  This seems like a possible cable plant issue the more I looked at it.
  • Several of the taps in the nearby area look like they could use some love & attention, and there's a tree pressing down on the hardline that is running east-west.

 

For the customer I'll say this, if the field tech does end up referring this to the maintenance, you need to be a bit patient for that follow-up (you don't have to be at home or anything).  The field tech is responsible from tap (where your utility connects up on the telephone pole) to CPE (customer premise equipment, like the modem).  Maintenance works  on the tap to node.  What we need to find out is if the 753 and 747 are coming out all garbled up like that out of the tap itself, and if there are any ingress leaks between tap and CPE.

 

Out of curiosity, is it worse when it's just rained outside?

 

My postings on this site are my own, off-the-clock, and don’t necessarily represent TWC’s/Charter's strategies or opinions.
Expert

Re: Speed drops since package upgrade

Those aren't ham radio freq's @ 747 nd 753 mHz,  they are old UHF tv channels that are now owned by Verizon and it's their 4G LTE transmits from poletop sites nationwide. Hundreds of new ones are being turned on every month as they expand the system

There is an ingress point or points somewhere between the fiber converter and your modem, could be anywhere along a couple miles of cable on the streets

 

Expert

Re: Speed drops since package upgrade

2.4 and 5.8 gHz aren't used by amatuer radio very much and a non issue

 

2.4 gHz wireless is a shared disaster from numerous unlicensed non compatable devices and microwave ovens.

Spectrum Employee

Re: Speed drops since package upgrade


@MsRaye wrote:

2.4 and 5.8 gHz aren't used by amatuer radio very much and a non issue

 

Um... No sorry that's incorrect, all  WiFi is technicially a form of amature radio.   Per definition, WiFi is an interoperable-approved broadcasting devices (approved by the WiFi Alliance) to conform to the IEEE's 802.11 standards.  The original "2.4 GHz WiFi" is in fact a UHF (Ultra-High Frequency, which is stuff between 300 MHz and 3 GHz)  radio broadcast, and the "5.0 GHz WiFi" is in fact a SHF (Super-High Frequency, which is stuff between 3 GHz and 30 GHz) radio broadcast.  I think you may have misunderstood what I meant...  or maybe just splitting hairs on what definines a "radio" broadcast when we're talking about the electromagentic spectrum as a whole...

 

It's also wrong to say it's a "non-issue".  In fact it's a common issue of underlying customer complaints about "slow internet speeds" on their devices (in this case meaning wireless, WiFi-using devices).  Unless I missing it, I did not see where @MrsAngelD specified if this was wireless or wired connectivity she was doing the speed test on.  That's why I brought it up that I hoped these speed measurements were on wired only, and not wireless.  It was not a condemnation, just seeking clarification from the topic's author.

 

adjacent-channel versus co-channel

Most people just don't know (or understand, or in some case could care less) about the issues out-of-phase adjacent inteference (or setting their 2.4 GHz broadcasts to 40 MHz wide instead of 20 MHz) can cause when it comes to physical data rates over WiFi connectivity (answer is it causes destructive interference, that they sort of cancel each other out).  And in terms of co-channel inteference, utilization also plays a big role.  If there's slower b-only or b/g devices that are broadcasting, they will slow down the other devices needing the air-time.  WiFi is "collision avoidance" (which on a side note, is also why it's jammable).  People do not understand that while their WiFi network may be a private, encrypted network, the short-wave radio broadcasting itself is shared on the air.   This is why for 2.4 GHz you should ALWAYS set it to channels 1, 6, or 11 here in the USA, and never anything other than 20 MHz wide.


Also, in this topic's case, the taps and aerial service "drop" lines from those taps on the street this customer who made this topic lives on could use some love & attention, as I already said.  You'll just have to trust me on that MsRaye.  But most ingress isn't from outside homes, it's usually from bad fittings inside the residence, or in this case what looks like an appartment.  Which brings me back to WiFi versus ethernet.  WiFi is prone to inteference an environmental factors far more than ethernet connectivity.  I'm just wondering 

 


@MsRaye wrote:

2.4 gHz wireless is a shared disaster from numerous unlicensed non compatable devices and microwave ovens.


 

 

That's primarily because for cheaply made devices, the manufacture didn't want to pay the WiFi alliance's fee for certification.  Buyer beware.

 

I've seen one particular "new" model of cheap RadioShack cordless house phone handset(s) cause issues with 5.0 GHz WiFi internet all they way down to the 5.0 band's channel # 48 (@ 5.25 GHz).  Or more specifically you could heard the WiFi on the phone's speaker as a patterned background noise, meaning the antenna was likely poorly made & tuned.  So it's not just issues with the 2.4 GHz... so even the 5.0  band is starting to get issues now too... Smiley Frustrated  (best of luck explaining that to a customer though, they are just upset that their WiFi connection it too laggy to play with their PS4 via WiFi, and the "gateway modem" is in a far back corner of the basement).

 

And yes, microwave ovens do leak microwaves (typically around the door frame). And yes, they can leak in the 5.0 band as well.

 

So yeah, very true that unliscenced devices are an issue.  We all share the air space.  That's a hard concept to get across to most people though...

 


@MsRaye wrote:

There is an ingress point or points somewhere between the fiber converter and your modem, could be anywhere along a couple miles of cable on the streets


Although the systems are designed specifically to keep such signals out, ingress (and egress) leaks can and do occur on rare occasion when there's damage to the shielding.


I don't know the measured of all shielding effectiveness numbers of everything in the plant, but they're typically more than 100 dB across the board.

 

They aren't as common as you might think (that shielding is pretty hard to overcome and penetrate when all fittings are correctly made & secure and the cable is of decent quality), but if you have a low MER on just small section of the frequency spectrum, that's usually going to be either a leak or something that is a trap or acting like a trap (damage that is causing the skin effect to go awry).  While most ingress leaks occur inside the home (typically due to cheap cable & bad fittings), they absolutely can occur outside the home.

My postings on this site are my own, off-the-clock, and don’t necessarily represent TWC’s/Charter's strategies or opinions.
Observer

Re: Speed drops since package upgrade

@agentx5 These speed tests were run on my wired desktop computer. Since posting this, I've had numerous times where I've had to reboot my modem to get speeds back to normal. The Tech is due out tomorrow. I'm sorry I didn't clarify whether this was perfomed on wireless or wired.

 

I haven't noticed a difference due to rain.

Spectrum Employee

Re: Speed drops since package upgrade

Ok so not a damaged jacket on the drop outside then.  Good news there at least.

 

Yeah that's definitely not ok on wired ethernet and be losing that much for what your modem is actually provisioned for.  The good news is I can tell you it's physical root cause then, so a field tech coming out is the right decision.

 

Please make sure the field tech you have coming out measures the utility tap.  I know it's a pain sometimes to get out a ladder on a narrow street, but we (meaning TWC/Charter) really need to know if those two DOCSIS frequencies are that garbled coming out of the tap (if so, that goes to maintenance to replace/fix).  And regardless if it's the tap or not ask them to check for any "ingress leaks" you might have inside the residence, and help fix those.  Would be kind of you to move things out of the way of coax wall plates you have so the tech can more easily check behind those wall plate connections (assuming you have wallplates that is).

 

The fact that you're rebooting your modem a lot, and that seems to restore service temporarily, seems to indicate to me that there probably is an ingress leakage issue (in other words, it could be there is so much background noise on the coax line that your modem is getting confused in its conversation back&forth to the server)

My postings on this site are my own, off-the-clock, and don’t necessarily represent TWC’s/Charter's strategies or opinions.