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Re: Peak Time High Ping at third Hop

UPDATE:

3 Days so far without problems. I think the issue has been resolved, time will tell for certain.

 

So, this thread is about 3 weeks old. I would say the total time it took for TWC to fix this issue was somewhere between 4-6 Weeks.

 

Again, the issue was high ping during Peak Time. The 3rd Hop and ONWARDS was showing high ping on the forward route. This was irregardless of whether or not I was using only the TWC modem/router or the TWC Modem in Bridge mode with my own Router.

The path to the solution:

1. First a Tech came over (Apartment). Replaced the 2nd splitter, the coaxial cable from the 2nd splitter to the modem. Replaced the modem.  Things looked good, but the peak time issue kept reappearing. Actually, it got worse; I think because I was early at tackling the issue. The next few weeks, saw not just high pings; but full on disconnections and spontanious packet loss.

2. Second Tech agrees with my traceroute deduction that it must be a building and/or neighborhood node. Starts taking building readings. Tells me that an engineerwill be doing some repairs in the building or further nodes. I use chat support to get updates, get some vague description of "tightening screws and fixing connections". 

After a few days of being hopeful things are going to change, the same peak time issue continues. I get frustrated and have another long phone call conversation with support. 

3. They send the same Tech who took building readings. He was very apologetic the issue was not resolved, and even had 2 other Techs with him to discuss. Basically said the issue is somewhere upstream beyond the building, and that all they could do was relay customer complaints until that congested node/server was looked at. Said they promised him they would resolve the issue the next day (Dec 16 2016). Unfortunately the issue wasn't resolved on Friday. Weekend had some higher latency as well. On monday, the same continued; but, some local businesses I visited also had internet outages(I also fell down to 1 upstream channel again). Maybe business complaints were the final trigger. Tuesday, things appear to be good. Today is Thursday, also no latency issues.

 

Final thoughts:
This did take a while to solve, but I suppose I can see why it would. In terms of support I would say never use Chat Support. Phone support was ok, had 1 bad one and maybe 3-4 good ones, with 2 very good. Direct Tech visits were pretty good to excellent.

 

Another thing I noticed is that there have been an increasing amount of bots looking to do DNS Amplification attacks this year especially.  Probably because of the success of such attacks on Dyn and others (the whole Internet of things takeover). All it would really take is a bunch of poorly configured/cheap routers/modems to attack TWC nodes during peak time to convince customers to switch to competitors. I think the tech mentioned that this kind of thing hasn't happened so suddenly before, but didn't want to make an exact judgement as physical failures can always play a vital role.

 

I'll mark this as solved after some time has passed.

Highlighted
Expert

Re: Peak Time High Ping at third Hop

Swpping modems never fixes signal or node issues provided all are docsis 3 and 16 channels and many 8's , yet TWC always blames issues on customer owned modems and won't fix their coaxial problems unless you rent one of theirs.

 Half the junk on the allowed modems have issues  however.  Twc expanded channels beyond the tracking/ locking capabilities of all 4 ch ones, slowing down everyone on the node and in some cases the old single ch docsis 2's perform better. And yes all customer s issues combine together and mess up everyone else on that node as well as cable leaks and ingress along the streets that node services.

The inhouse techs have to escalate the issues like those and either they're penalized for or afraid to... Or perhaps the escallations go into the trash and never get done.

The more complaints the better, if you and the neighbors are having problems, they need to individually call twc/spectrum/ Charter for service and not expect one addressed call to fix them all.

 

Proven Sharer

Re: Peak Time High Ping at third Hop


@Xraider wrote:

Hi, Here is the data as per advice.

1. Brooklyn, New York. 11209. Multi-Family Complex(Apartment Building). (2 Switches - 1 New, 3 TV Cables, 1 Internet Modem - New) 

2. Internet & CableTV.

3. Ubee Modem. Model: DDW36C (Fully in Bridge mode/same issue if set as modem & router)

4. Mikrotik heX Lite. Model:  RB750r2 (Wired Router)

5. 

Information

Standard Specification CompliantDOCSIS 3.0
Hardware Version3.22.1
Software Version8.22.2121

6. Confirmed the Correct Modem is online.

7. Extreme Internet (50/5). Down: 70.9Mbps. Up:  5.91Mbps. Latency: 8ms. Jitter: 9ms.

8. For 2 weeks or so, clear patterns of HIGH PING during 8pm - 11pm. Here is a graph of constant pings Graph.
Please ignore the Red in the graph. Captured using MultiPing.

Also, here is WinMTR during problem periods. It seems to be a problem at 3rd Hop - IP address of 68.173.200.89 - looks like staten island)

|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| WinMTR statistics |
| Host - % | Sent | Recv | Best | Avrg | Wrst | Last |
|------------------------------------------------|------|------|------|------|------|------|
| router - 0 | 103 | 103 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 |
| 142.254.164.41 - 0 | 103 | 103 | 8 | 18 | 60 | 23 |
| tge-0-10-0-7.nycvnyjj01h.nyc.rr.com - 0 | 103 | 103 | 84 | 214 | 365 | 182 |
| agg110.nyclnyrg01r.nyc.rr.com - 0 | 103 | 103 | 52 | 119 | 197 | 115 |
| 66.109.3.222 - 0 | 103 | 103 | 51 | 120 | 212 | 104 |
| 0.ae0.pr0.nyc30.tbone.rr.com - 0 | 103 | 103 | 47 | 133 | 202 | 132 |
| 207.239.16.193 - 0 | 103 | 103 | 51 | 117 | 197 | 98 |
| 216.156.16.128.ptr.us.xo.net - 0 | 103 | 103 | 52 | 124 | 197 | 108 |
| 216.156.16.133.ptr.us.xo.net - 0 | 103 | 103 | 48 | 115 | 197 | 93 |
| 205.197.230.38 - 2 | 99 | 98 | 51 | 119 | 200 | 105 |
| 108.170.235.101 - 0 | 103 | 103 | 55 | 119 | 197 | 98 |
| 108.170.233.245 - 0 | 103 | 103 | 50 | 118 | 198 | 115 |
| google-public-dns-a.google.com - 0 | 103 | 103 | 46 | 116 | 197 | 102 |
|________________________________________________|______|______|______|______|______|______|

 

9. Here are Signal Levels. The Modem is in Bridge Mode, disable firewalls, disabled both 2.4ghz and 5ghz wifi signals, as well as the DHCP server. This is a NEW modem (1 month max). I can not find any option screen that gives me access to logs, which I've seen before on an Arris modem.

10. It's an apartment. Coaxial comes in, goes to 1st TVcable, then Splitter, then TVcable then Splitter(newly replaced), then to the modem (coaxial between modem and splitter also new). That final splitter also goes to another TVcable. Modem and the cable from new to splitter to it, have also been replaced.

11. 1 cat5e from Modem(new) to Router(new). From Router 4 Cat5e, 1 to a switch(new), and 3 to PCs. The switch then goes to an Access Point that is a 2.4Ghz wifi. I've pinged devices all around, to make sure the Cat5e's were fine. No issues. (Note: the ping graph was created with a direct connection to Modem, no router).

12. I don't know of any neighborhood changes. The issue existed before I replaced the modem. I replaced it in hopes of solving the issue. Tech replaced 1 splitter/modem/coaxial cable, thought everything was fine.

13. WinMTR is posted above during the problem period and during stable period.

14. Ping in games shoots up during 8pm-11pm on weekdays as a result. Financial software that requires high performance slows its response. Streaming of movies is barely affected.

15. No. I have by hour graphs of traffic from the router. There is barely any bandwidth usage from my end during the problem period.

Changing out your modem will do nothing to fix long ping delays measured between TWC's hardware boxes. There are some things you can do to improve service in general:

I suggest first swapping the modem cable and TV #1 to connect your modem to the first splitter on the drop.   Next, disable IPv6 in your router and connected devices.  You indicated that you turned off DHCP in the [bridged] Ubee modem so your Mikrotik router should be providing DHCP for your LAN. 

Based on your actual measured data speeds, I think your internet service is now being marketed as 60 up and 5 down. 

Expert

Re: Peak Time High Ping at third Hop

Agreed, get the modem on the first 2 way and see if it picks up the 4th upstream channel, Repost the level page.

iMwdDgu

You're also showing the typical NYC 333-339 mHz degradation issue.

 

Browser

Re: Peak Time High Ping at third Hop


@MsRaye wrote:

Agreed, get the modem on the first 2 way and see if it picks up the 4th upstream channel, Repost the level page.

 

You're also showing the typical NYC 333-339 mHz degradation issue.

 


Ok. I just lost internet again today. When things were bad My Upstream signal showed 2 Channels off and 2 Channels at 49.  Then the modem started to restart on its own (its in bridge), lights went solid for Power and Down Stream, but stuck flashing at Up Stream. I had to manually unplug and start it. Then it went. 

Current Levels: http://imgur.com/cmczYjP

I have tried doing the modem on the first splitter/coupler, the levels were similar to what I see now. The way this apartment is set up, it's very difficult to keep that configuration (using the first splitter/coupler) I show the pictures of these splitters/couplers; will it really make a huge difference to be with the coupler?. 

Here is Error Log (finally got access to it, have to use TWC master login): 

Time  Priority  Description 
 Tue Dec 27 17:06:43 2016   Notice (6)  Web user logged in from 158.111.111.77 
 Tue Dec 27 17:06:34 2016   Notice (6)  web user logged out from 158.111.111.77. 
 Tue Dec 27 16:41:37 2016   Critical (3)  Started Unicast Maintenance Ranging - No Response received -... 
 Tue Dec 27 15:51:34 2016   Notice (6)  Web user logged in from 158.111.111.77 
 Tue Dec 27 15:51:22 2016   Notice (6)  web user logged out from 158.111.111.77. 
 Tue Dec 27 15:19:22 2016   Notice (6)  Web user logged in from 158.111.111.77
 Tue Dec 27 15:10:03 2016   Error (4)  Missing BP Configuration Setting TLV Type: 17.9;CM-MAC=44:1c... 
 Tue Dec 27 15:10:03 2016   Error (4)  Missing BP Configuration Setting TLV Type: 17.8;CM-MAC=44:1c... 
 Time Not Established  Notice (6)  Overriding MDD IP initialization parameters; IP provisioning... 
 Time Not Established  Notice (6)  WiFi Interface [wl1] set to Channel 149 (Side-Band Channel:N... 
 Time Not Established  Notice (6)  WiFi Interface [wl1] set to Channel 0 (Side-Band Channel:325... 
 Time Not Established  Notice (6)  WiFi Interface [wl0] set to Channel 11 (Side-Band Channel:N/... 
 Tue Dec 27 14:30:01 2016   Notice (6)  Web user logged in from 2001:XXXX:XXX:XXX::2 
 Tue Dec 27 14:28:29 2016   Error (4)  Missing BP Configuration Setting TLV Type: 17.9;CM-MAC=44:1c... 
 Tue Dec 27 14:28:29 2016   Error (4)  Missing BP Configuration Setting TLV Type: 17.8;CM-MAC=44:1c... 
 Time Not Established  Notice (6)  Overriding MDD IP initialization parameters; IP provisioning... 
 Time Not Established  Critical (3)  No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=44:1c:XX:X... 
 Time Not Established  Notice (6)  WiFi Interface [wl1] set to Channel 149 (Side-Band Channel:N... 
 Time Not Established  Notice (6)  WiFi Interface [wl1] set to Channel 0 (Side-Band Channel:325... 
 Time Not Established  Notice (6)  WiFi Interface [wl0] set to Channel 11 (Side-Band Channel:N/... 
 Tue Dec 27 14:26:38 2016   Critical (3)  No Maintenance Broadcasts for Ranging opportunities received... 
 Tue Dec 27 14:23:09 2016   Notice (6)  Web user logged in from 192.168.100.10 
 Tue Dec 27 14:23:03 2016   Critical (3)  No Maintenance Broadcasts for Ranging opportunities received... 
 Tue Dec 27 14:22:59 2016   Notice (6)  Web login failed from 192.168.100.10 
 Tue Dec 27 14:22:52 2016   Critical (3)  No Maintenance Broadcasts for Ranging opportunities received... 
 Tue Dec 27 14:22:49 2016   Notice (6)  Web login failed from 192.168.100.10 
 Tue Dec 27 14:22:41 2016   Critical (3)  No Maintenance Broadcasts for Ranging opportunities received... 
 Tue Dec 27 13:49:53 2016   Notice (6)  web user logged out from 158.111.111.77
 Tue Dec 27 13:45:18 2016   Notice (6)  Web user logged in from 158.111.111.77
 Tue Dec 27 08:03:04 2016   Critical (3)  Started Unicast Maintenance Ranging - No Response received -... 
 Mon Dec 26 07:44:25 2016   Notice (6)  web user logged out from 158.111.111.77

 

I cleared logs before this last one. Modem is Operating in Bridge mode. Confirmed with Tech.

 

So, I think the high ping problem during peak time is gone. However, this disconnect is concerning and unexplainable. 

 

Again, Cable Comes into the Apartment.

Then it is Split by a Directional Coupler http://imgur.com/fA2E9E8

Then the End marked with -8DB goes to a TVcable. The end marked OUT, 

goes to a SPLITTER http://imgur.com/4EqomYH

On the splitter they're all marked with 5.5Db, and the top most one in the picture (the newer looking white wire) is the cable Modem.

 

When I spoke with another tech today, he told me that my Upload is 5Mb...so if I see only 2 channels on the upstrea...that's fine, because I don't need more. When I pressed about the high Power Signal on the Upstream, said "it's fine now though".

 

I seem to recall reading somewhere that such variation of Power signal in the Upstream is indicative of something...is it a poor coupler?

Proven Sharer

Re: Peak Time High Ping at third Hop

The second tech you spoke to is not familiar with how the internet data modem portion of TWC's network operates, which is unfortunate for both you and TWC.  Poor training and evaluation.

Expert

Re: Peak Time High Ping at third Hop

None of those connectors were replaced, one is a black- junk patch cable that's hex crimped.

It also looks like none were even torqued down snug. Tech did nothing... figures Robot Sad

 

Do you have 4 cable devices? 

Expert

Re: Peak Time High Ping at third Hop

The first splitter is a directional coupler with there being a -8 port feeding that ones box and the out port having 1.5 dB of loss feeding the 3 way splitter. it is a -5.5 equal loss splitter

Connect the modem to the out port of the first splitter andCopy and Paste the down and upstream levels.  let's see if there's now 8x4 bonding. If there is, I'd replace the equal port 3 way with a -3.5 -7 -7 splitter and put the modem on the -3.5 port which will be 2 dB better than the original one.

 I'd also get rid of that black coax and get a real compression rg6 cable

 

 

 

 

Browser

Re: Peak Time High Ping at third Hop


@MsRaye wrote:

The first splitter is a directional coupler with there being a -8 port feeding that ones box and the out port having 1.5 dB of loss feeding the 3 way splitter. it is a -5.5 equal loss splitter

Connect the modem to the out port of the first splitter andCopy and Paste the down and upstream levels.  let's see if there's now 8x4 bonding. If there is, I'd replace the equal port 3 way with a -3.5 -7 -7 splitter and put the modem on the -3.5 port which will be 2 dB better than the original one.

 I'd also get rid of that black coax and get a real compression rg6 cable

 

 

 

 


Why get rid of the black coax? That goes to a TVcable box, it doesn't have any issues. Can that cable adversily affect the splitter and/or other connections?

 

Some clarifications: The loss of upstream channels only occured after having the modem ONLINE for more then 2 days or so. Along with those came some errors as you can see in the log.

 

After doing some reading, I did indeed order a splitter with a 3.5db port (haven't gotten it yet). Yes, I have 4 Cable devices. Thus far, the interesting thing i noticed was that my signal improved when i moved the splitter away from nearby Surge protectors and a Major Power Outlet/Socket. Also, my logs in the modem look pretty clean so far as well (not timeouts or critical messages).  

I figured since I usually start with all upstream/downstream channels and ok signal levels, but they slowly degrade that it might be a Electro magnetic interference. Seems to be true. Also noticed that splitter is EMI labeled with -130dB, but their manufacturing site says -120dB. Weird. Seems sensitive either way. Anyways, the one I ordered should be -130dB.

Expert

Re: Peak Time High Ping at third Hop

Bad cables affect everything in the house.  Check the backsides of wall plates as well

 

-120 -130 makes no difference.

 Are there surge protector outlet strips inline with cable boxes or the modem coax? Those need to go