Highlighted
Observer

T3 Timeouts

Guess this been going on for a while, never notice till I started online gaming again.  The random 5 to 6 second lag.   Single home. Wired connection.  Factory reset the modem, power cycle, took off the splitter and connected the modem straight to the cable from the floor (reconnected the splitter aftwards).  Disconnected the Wireless router(Netgear WNDR4300) samething occurs. 

 

Use to have TV/internet/Phone, drop the phone two years ago.  After dropping Phone the Arris modem  DL speed would not go higher than 5Mbs.  Tech came out replace it with Ubee and said the power levels were a "little high" so he installed a splitter with a cap to the line for my modem. Everything was fine until now.  Before I been trying to  see what the problem was (upstream data) US -1 and US-4 would have T3 Timeouts Just lately (setup as the Tech left it with the splitter) US-2 and US-3 in upstream are now timing out.

 

Modem:  Ubee (Spectrum owned)

Serial Number : D2P3Q2B000404
Boot Code Version : 6.3.2b
Software Version : 3.35.2002
Hardware Version : 1.67.2

 

Downstream

DS-1DS-2DS-3DS-4
Frequency507000000531000000549000000573000000
Lock Status 
(QAM Lock/FEC Sync/MPEG Lock)
LockedLockedLockedLocked
Channel Id9131620
Modulation256QAM256QAM256QAM256QAM
Symbol Rate 
(Msym/sec)
5.3605375.3605375.3605375.360537
Interleave DepthI=32
J=4
I=32
J=4
I=32
J=4
I=32
J=4
Power Level 
(dBmV)
10.6011.2611.7611.47
RxMER 
(dB)
38.2639.4039.4038.26
Correctable
Codewords
10681213751684
Uncorrectable
Codewords
750115401689123205
 DS-5DS-6DS-7DS-8
Frequency579000000597000000621000000645000000
Lock Status 
(QAM Lock/FEC Sync/MPEG Lock)
LockedLockedLockedLocked
Channel Id21242832
Modulation256QAM256QAM256QAM256QAM
Symbol Rate 
(Msym/sec)
5.3605375.3605375.3605375.360537
Interleave DepthI=32
J=4
I=32
J=4
I=32
J=4
I=32
J=4
Power Level 
(dBmV)
11.1211.2511.0711.59
RxMER 
(dB)
38.2638.6138.6138.61
Correctable
Codewords
767132612802250
Uncorrectable
Codewords
29655341663563235754

 

Upstream

US-1US-2US-3US-4
Channel Type2.01.02.02.0
Channel ID8576
Frequency 
(Hz)
37000000194000003060000024200000
Ranging StatusSuccessSuccessSuccessSuccess
Modulation64QAM16QAM64QAM64QAM
Symbol Rate 
(KSym/sec)
2560256051205120
Mini-Slot Size4422
Power Level 
(dBmV)
51.7550.7551.7550.50
T1 Timeouts0000
T2 Timeouts0000
T3 Timeouts7714
T4 Timeouts0000

 

Event Log

First Time    Last Time    PriorityDescription  

Time Not Established     Time Not Established         Critical (3)               No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out

  Wed Nov 15 12:58:55 2017      Wed Nov 15 12:58:55 2017      Warning (5)          MIMO Event MIMO: Stored MIMO=-1 post cfg file MIMO=-1;CM-MAC=54:35:30:f0:30:a7;CMTS-MAC=00:17:10:88:17:07;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;

 Wed Nov 15 12:58:55 2017      Wed Nov 15 12:58:55 2017          Notice (6)              TLV-11 - unrecognized OID;CM-MAC=54:35:30:f0:30:a7;CMTS-MAC=00:17:10:88:17:07;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;

 Wed Nov 15 13:13:59 2017      Thu Nov 16 12:34:03 2017    Critical (3)    No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out

 Thu Nov 16 17:20:39 2017    Thu Nov 16 17:20:40 2017      Notice (6)    Login Web GUI successful;CM-MAC=54:35:30:f0:30:a7;CMTS-MAC=00:17:10:88:17:07;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;

 Thu Nov 16 17:20:41 2017     Thu Nov 16 17:20:41 2017     Notice (6)    Failed to login Web GUI;CM-MAC=54:35:30:f0:30:a7;CMTS-MAC=00:17:10:88:17:07;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;

 Thu Nov 16 17:20:42 2017        Thu Nov 16 17:20:54 2017     Notice (6)    Login Web GUI successful;CM-MAC=54:35:30:f0:30:a7;CMTS-MAC=00:17:10:88:17:07;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;

 Sun Nov 19 16:39:13 2017      Sun Nov 26 17:45:57 2017     Critical (3)   No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out

 Sun Nov 26 20:25:40 2017    Sun Nov 26 20:25:41 2017    Notice (6)    Login Web GUI successful;CM-MAC=54:35:30:f0:30:a7;CMTS-MAC=00:17:10:88:17:07;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;

 Sun Nov 26 20:25:41 2017    Sun Nov 26 20:25:41 2017     Notice (6)    Failed to login Web GUI;CM-MAC=54:35:30:f0:30:a7;CMTS-MAC=00:17:10:88:17:07;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;

 Sun Nov 26 20:25:43 2017     Sun Nov 26 20:25:43 2017    Notice (6)    Login Web GUI successful;CM-MAC=54:35:30:f0:30:a7;CMTS-MAC=00:17:10:88:17:07;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;

 Sun Nov 26 20:25:55 2017    Sun Nov 26 20:25:55 2017     Notice (6)   Failed to login Web GUI;CM-MAC=54:35:30:f0:30:a7;CMTS-MAC=00:17:10:88:17:07;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;

 Sun Nov 26 20:26:08 2017   Sun Nov 26 20:26:50 2017    Notice (6)    Login Web GUI successful;CM-MAC=54:35:30:f0:30:a7;CMTS-MAC=00:17:10:88:17:07;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;

 Mon Nov 27 18:33:50 2017   Wed Nov 29 12:33:48 2017    Critical (3)    No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out

 Wed Nov 29 14:55:46 2017   Wed Nov 29 14:55:47 2017    Notice (6)   Login Web GUI successful;CM-MAC=54:35:30:f0:30:a7;CMTS-MAC=00:17:10:88:17:07;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;

 Wed Nov 29 14:55:48 2017    Wed Nov 29 14:55:48 2017   Notice (6)   Failed to login Web GUI;CM-MAC=54:35:30:f0:30:a7;CMTS-MAC=00:17:10:88:17:07;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;

 Wed Nov 29 14:55:50 2017   Thu Nov 30 01:02:37 2017   Notice (6)   Login Web GUI successful;CM-MAC=54:35:30:f0:30:a7;CMTS-MAC=00:17:10:88:17:07;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;

 Thu Nov 30 01:02:38 2017T    hu Nov 30 01:02:38 2017   Notice (6)    Failed to login Web GUI;CM-MAC=54:35:30:f0:30:a7;CMTS-MAC=00:17:10:88:17:07;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;

 Thu Nov 30 01:02:45 2017   Thu Nov 30 01:44:13 2017   Notice (6)   Login Web GUI successful;CM-MAC=54:35:30:f0:30:a7;CMTS-MAC=00:17:10:88:17:07;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;

 Thu Nov 30 01:44:14 2017    Thu Nov 30 01:44:24 2017   Notice (6)  Failed to login Web GUI;CM-MAC=54:35:30:f0:30:a7;CMTS-MAC=00:17:10:88:17:07;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;

 Thu Nov 30 01:44:39 2017  Thu Nov 30 02:08:19 2017   Notice (6)   Login Web GUI successful;CM-MAC=54:35:30:f0:30:a7;CMTS-MAC=00:17:10:88:17:07;CM-QOS=1.1;CM-VER=3.0;

14 REPLIES
Expert

Re: T3 Timeouts

Call them back out, it's not a modem or in house issue but a bad amplifier.  For a DS that high, the US should be in the low 40 dB area. At +51, there is no headroom and  channels are going to fail.

 This needs to get escalated to the bucket truck guys as the in house techs and noone on the phone can fix bad street levels no matter what they claim.

Something out there failed in an amp housing on the street.

 

Observer

Re: T3 Timeouts

 

Since then called and got a date of 12-2-17, The CS Rep put it as a Modulation problem. Tech comes out and says  US power levels in the 50's "is good" He says that line noise on one channel is causing problems to the other channels.  He disconnect the line that goes to my house and test the line that connects to the  Neighborhood node (which is a green box on the ground), same line noise. Of course he had to escalate it to maintenance (bucket truck)  After that do not what happen because I never seen one come here.

 

Still same problem T3 in the double digits on each channel, even had a few T4 timeouts and one T1. So I have another Tech coming this Friday. US Power levels are the same, The DS gotten worse.

 

 

Expert

Re: T3 Timeouts

US in the 50's is a bad answer... at +52.0 most modems will have major issues and at + 53.0 they will start deleting channels to concentrate power on remaining channels.

 If modem is above that, it will only have a single US channel that can be as high as +57

Modem will do t4 resets and try to find good channels.

 

US ingress is somewhere along the node, probably at multiple points, We've found underground is worst than overhead due to road salt and yard pesticides.

To find the noise, they first need to do an egress sweep of all pedestaals on the node and fix the bad connections. If that doesn't clear up the issues then they need to do US and DS noise checks on each tapoff to determine what customers are causing the noise.

This is often electrical ground loop issues and are notorious in underground subdivisions.

there are all sorts of licensed services in the 5-45 mHz upstream band, the worst offender  on the 24 mHz slot will be CB operators running illegal amplifiers in the 26.5 to 27.5 mHz range.

 

Proven Sharer

Re: T3 Timeouts

Note that all 8 of the DS channel levels are also running hot, above +10 dBmV, which is not going to improve internet performance.   Put the 2-way splitter with termination back in the coax cable feeding the modem. 

Spectrum Employee

Re: T3 Timeouts


karlbeckman wrote:

Note that all 8 of the DS channel levels are also running hot, above +10 dBmV, which is not going to improve internet performance.   Put the 2-way splitter with termination back in the coax cable feeding the modem. 


No.  It's actually better to avoid artificially attenuating @karlbeckman.  That only serves to further degrade MER, and raise Tx/Return.  Neither of which is productive for the trade-off of a slightly decreased Forward/Rx power.  It's just not a good trade-off.  I used to think this was an ok practice until learning more about the outside plant and signal quality specifics, now I know it's not a good idea in the long-term.  Especially considering how padding is handled.  When maintenance adjusts levels, it doesn't just affect you after all, it affects that whole line of taps from the active when maintenance adjusts levels, a whole street possibly.

They have to balance it for everyone as best as possible.

 

reidcreed wrote:

 

Since then called and got a date of 12-2-17, The CS Rep put it as a Modulation problem. Tech comes out and says  US power levels in the 50's "is good" He says that line noise on one channel is causing problems to the other channels.  He disconnect the line that goes to my house and test the line that connects to the  Neighborhood node (which is a green box on the ground), same line noise. Of course he had to escalate it to maintenance (bucket truck)  After that do not what happen because I never seen one come here.


 

As far as 50's being good for Tx/Return...

50 is ok, >52 isn't good.

Really 35 to 50 at the CPE is fine.

If can't be fixed between tap & modem to bring it within a 15 dB range like that, then either field tech doing it wrong (i.e. use an house/drop unity gain amp maybe?) or there's a maintenance issue at the tap.

 

I'm unclear if there's currently splitters involved in what you're posting here, @reidcreed

Any idea what the Tx is at the tap?  Do you have any splitters?  If so, what exactly? 

 

I feel it's likely there's likely a maintenance issue combined with ingress leakage somewhere (yours and/or neighbors).

 

A lower Tx/Return would help (how much would it help is unknown, but it would help to some extent), probably need to adjust the Forward/Tx down as well if it's too high (although it will be somewhat high anyways because it's extra cold outside currently).

 

Maintenance tech required (and no you don't have to be home and they don't make customer contact).  But unfortunately will need to have the Field tech check everything from tap to modem first before referring back to maintenance.  Might be good to check behind wallplate outlets too for bad fittings.  That's a common place for hidden issues to be found.  So I'd keep your Friday appointment and no you don't typically see maintenance necessarily.  If the amp is around the corner of the street or something, then they'll be over there adjusting padding and not over where your tap is.

 

Please disregard "caused by road salt & pesticides" and "electrical groundloop", that's just silliness.  The hardline wiring is made with layers that can handle that and more if it's underground-grade.  Now if there's a break in the line that's different, but if it's sealed it lasts for a loooooong time, it's engineered as such.

 

My postings on this site are my own, off-the-clock, and don’t necessarily represent TWC’s/Charter's strategies or opinions.
Expert

Re: T3 Timeouts

I agree that it needs to be fixed out on the street somewhere.

BUT THE ISSUE IS THAT TWC and now SPECTRUM TECHS are using splitters and directional couplers to attenuate incoming signals rather than escallating this to the bucket truck crews..

It is very easy to overload modems and amplifiers and distort/corrupt the dsp, especially on old 4 and 8 channel modems.

Observer

Re: T3 Timeouts

This is with a splitter attached the internet line inside the house next to the modem that is also capped.  This was put in by a tech when the old Arris modem was replaced because I was getting 5mb Download speed.  Tech told me back then my DS Power levels (between 10 and 11 at the time) was too high.

 These are numbers before appointment tomorrow

Cable Modem Downstream
 DS-1DS-2DS-3DS-4
Frequency507000000513000000519000000525000000
Lock Status 
(QAM Lock/FEC Sync/MPEG Lock)
LockedLockedLockedLocked
Channel Id9101112
Modulation256QAM256QAM256QAM256QAM
Symbol Rate 
(Msym/sec)
5.3605375.3605375.3605375.360537
Interleave DepthI=32
J=4
I=32
J=4
I=32
J=4
I=32
J=4
Power Level 
(dBmV)
11.2911.4211.7411.81
RxMER 
(dB)
38.6138.9839.4038.61
Correctable
Codewords
7735
Uncorrectable
Codewords
498536530632
 DS-5DS-6DS-7DS-8
Frequency531000000537000000543000000549000000
Lock Status 
(QAM Lock/FEC Sync/MPEG Lock)
LockedLockedLockedLocked
Channel Id13141516
Modulation256QAM256QAM256QAM256QAM
Symbol Rate 
(Msym/sec)
5.3605375.3605375.3605375.360537
Interleave DepthI=32
J=4
I=32
J=4
I=32
J=4
I=32
J=4
Power Level 
(dBmV)
11.9612.0412.3512.49
RxMER 
(dB)
38.6138.9839.4039.85
Correctable
Codewords
10421115
Uncorrectable
Codewords
632644649599
Cable Modem Upstream
 US-1US-2US-3US-4
Channel Type2.01.02.02.0
Channel ID8576
Frequency 
(Hz)
37000000194000003060000024200000
Ranging StatusSuccessSuccessSuccessSuccess
Modulation64QAM16QAM64QAM64QAM
Symbol Rate 
(KSym/sec)
2560256051205120
Mini-Slot Size4422
Power Level 
(dBmV)
51.7551.7551.7551.75
T1 Timeouts0000
T2 Timeouts0000
T3 Timeouts

 

Proven Sharer

Re: T3 Timeouts

I'll agree that IN GENERAL it is better to avoid either artificially attenuating or amplifying an individual drop.   BUT that's NOT true if you are dealing with in-channel inteference caused by high levels of intermod products on the trunk. 

Example:   When you get a 3 IM generated product (A+B-C) the signal level varies at 3x the rate of each contributing source.  That is, a 1 dB change in any of the carriers creates a 3 dB change in the level of the product.  THIS is when adding a splitter to get a 3.5 dB change will be the difference between clean video and a bunch of uncorrectable errors, since the resultant generated IM product level will decrease by 3 times 3.5 dB.  I'm sure you'll agree from experience that dropping the level of an interfering IM product by 10 dB makes a difference in viewing quality. 

The goal isn't to be perfect, just to keep the grass mowed down on your spectrum analyzer display so the level of all non-Spectrum signals are below the interfereence threshold of the modem's DSP.  It doesn't matter whether the signal source is ingress or conducted.  When you meet that target, subscribers will pay their bills and stop complaining to the Spectrum chat and phone help desks and here in the forums.

Expert

Re: T3 Timeouts

Each inline amp and especially when gain is set too high, makes that product worst.

There is also a return product generated by subtracting .. A-B will end up with noise in the 5-45 mHz reverse (US) band.

 What is marked on the "splitter" and how many ports on it? If it says in/out/tap, it's a directional coupler, not a 1:1 splitter